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max wrote:
Here is another guy who gets it:...
for the moment Washington is focused on destabilizing Ukraine.
.....
http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-...ne/5367744
Washington Destabilizes Ukraine
By Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
Keep trotting out those fringe authors, max. That'll persuade folks of your points.
Paul Craig Roberts
"We know that it is strictly impossible for any building, much less steel columned buildings, to “pancake” at free fall speed. Therefore, it is a non-controversial fact that the official explanation of the collapse of the WTC buildings is false... Since the damning incontrovertible fact has not been investigated, speculation and “conspiracy theories” have filled the void."
"In their hatred of 'the rich,' the left-wing overlooks that in the 20th century the rich were the class most persecuted by government. The class genocide of the 20th century is the greatest genocide in history."
"There is probably more democracy in China than there is in the west."
This guy is going further around the bend with each year that passes.
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cbelt3 wrote:
Unlike some of our colleagues, I don't see Nazis under every mattress. Are there national socialists at work ? Sure, why not. Ditto folks that miss the USSR, etc..
We are not funding the folks that miss the USSR,
we are funding the same nationalists that volunteered and formed Nazi SS divisions for Hitler.
We do not have to look under every mattress, cbelt, just the existing record.
We, OK, it was Bill Clinton that signed up with Franko Tudjman and his Croatian Nazis to execute the biggest genocide of the last two decades in the Balkans.
The boys Obama is funding to be our point men in the Ukraine, the Ukrainians under the Nazi flag of freedom, "Svoboda had been excluded from the AENM because of its overtly racist stances – asthe Russian sarcastic saying goes, they were “expelled from the Gestapo for brutality”.
http://www.academia.edu/4402918/The_old_...boda_party.
There is no illusion in Ukraine of who they are and they are running the show today in Kiev....
I am not defending the regime, it was one of the most corrupt they had, the next one will be not much better.
But if know the history of that corner of the world, this is another mess about to happen, even worse than the Balkans. There are no good guys, one way or another. We will never gain anything by sticking our hands into that ant pile...
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Lemon Drop wrote:
As for your source - Paul Craig Roberts. father of Reaganomics. Well, I agree with him on some obvious things, like the erosion of post 9/11 civil rights.
He is not my source, I happen to know that area well and it's history, I do not live within five day horizons.
Just like you I agree with him on some things, disagree on others.
But he does get our foreign policy....
Perhaps if the Kiev students had listened to the Hungarian rock group instead of to Washington’s NGOs, they would understand what it means to be looted by the West, and Ukraine would not be in turmoil and headed toward destruction.
As Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland made clear in her speech last December and in the leaked recording of her telephone conversation with the US ambassador in Kiev, Washington spent $5 billion of US taxpayer dollars engineering a coup in Ukraine that overthrew the elected democratic government.
That it was a coup is also underlined by the obvious public lies that Obama has told about the situation, blaming, of course, the overthrown government, and by the total misrepresentation of Ukrainian developments by the US and European presstitute media. The only reason to misrepresent the events is to support the coup and to cover up Washington’s hand.
There is no doubt whatsoever that the coup is a strategic move by Washington to weaken Russia. Washington tried to capture Ukraine in 2004 with the Washington-funded “Orange Revolution,” but failed. Ukraine was part of Russia for 200 years prior to being granted independence in the 1990s. The eastern and southern provinces of Ukraine are Russian areas that were added to Ukraine in the 1950s by the Soviet leadership in order to water down the influence of the nazi elements in the western Ukraine that had fought for Adolf Hitler against the Soviet Union during World War 2.
The loss of Ukraine to the EU and NATO would mean the loss of Russia’s naval base on the Black Sea and the loss of many military industries. If Russia were to accept such strategic defeat, it would mean that Russia had submitted to Washington’s hegemony.
There is a price for instability we are sowing, are we ready to pay it?...
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Ted King wrote:
The whole notion of what is or is not a "legal" government in the Ukraine has been quite a mess for at least since 2010 when the Ukrainian supreme court threw out a bill that was supposed to have changed their constitution in 2004 and was "in force" for the election that "elected" Yanukovych etc etc.
Ironically the Parliament "voted" to go back to the same previous constitution and run the new elections under the same law....
Leader of the Party of Regions parliamentary faction Oleksandr Yefremov has told EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Catherine Ashton that the current government in Ukraine has no influence on radical citizens and that MPs from the Party of Regions faction are working "at gunpoint.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/...37587.html
Literally, the MPs refusing to vote Svoboda line were savagely beaten right off the floor of the Parliament.
It is an uncanny repeat of preceding events to German elections of March of 1933....
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max wrote:
we are funding the same nationalists that volunteered and formed Nazi SS divisions for Hitler.
We do not have to look under every mattress, cbelt, just the existing record.
The boys Obama is funding to be our point men in the Ukraine, the Ukrainians under the Nazi flag of freedom
There is no illusion in Ukraine of who they are and they are running the show today in Kiev....
Where are you seeing any legitimate reporting that establishes this?
Late January:
"... we want to keep the moderate democrats together. The problem is going to be Tyahnybok [Oleh Tyahnybok, the other opposition leader] and his guys and I'm sure that's part of what [President Viktor] Yanukovych is calculating on all this."
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That idiotic statement reminds of the time I was posting on DM about Clinton funded genocide in Croatia.
According to the useful idiots, at the time, it never happened because they did not see it reported by New York Times.
I was there, I knew the people that participated. I saw the after effects.
It took quite a few years before European press wrote about it. The New York Times never did.
Ukraine is worse, even the Germans did not wanted to get involved and they have the experience....
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DeusxMac wrote:
[quote=max]
we are funding the same nationalists that volunteered and formed Nazi SS divisions for Hitler.
We do not have to look under every mattress, cbelt, just the existing record.
The boys Obama is funding to be our point men in the Ukraine, the Ukrainians under the Nazi flag of freedom
There is no illusion in Ukraine of who they are and they are running the show today in Kiev....
Where are you seeing any legitimate reporting that establishes this?
Late January:
"... we want to keep the moderate democrats together. The problem is going to be Tyahnybok [Oleh Tyahnybok, the other opposition leader] and his guys and I'm sure that's part of what [President Viktor] Yanukovych is calculating on all this."
"Moderates" in Ukraine only differ in the degree of nazism in their political and family DNA.
Just scratching the surface, DeauxMac, but we can start your education with this introduction to our main allies, the shock troops of our policy...
Svoboda’s openly pro-Nazi politics have not deterred Senator John McCain from addressing a EuroMaidan rally alongside Tyahnybok, nor did it prevent Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland from enjoying a friendly meeting with the Svoboda leader this February. Eager to fend off accusations of anti-Semitism, the Svoboda leader recently hosted the Israeli Ambassador to Ukraine. “I would like to ask Israelis to also respect our patriotic feelings,” Tyahnybok has remarked. “Probably each party in the [Israeli] Knesset is nationalist. With God’s help, let it be this way for us too.”
In a leaked phone conversation with Geoffrey Pyatt, the US ambassador to Ukraine, Nuland revealed her wish for Tyahnybok to remain “on the outside,” but to consult with the US’s replacement for Yanukovich, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, “four times a week.” At a December 5, 2013 US-Ukraine Foundation Conference, Nuland boasted that the US had invested $5 billion to “build democratic skills and institutions” in Ukraine, though she did not offer any details.
“The Euro-Maidan movement has come to embody the principles and values that are the cornerstones for all free democracies,” Nuland proclaimed.
http://www.salon.com/2014/02/25/is_the_u...e_partner/
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